tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post2911937825427228245..comments2022-03-30T07:33:05.717-06:00Comments on Toby Gadd: Ultra-racing RulesToby Gaddhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12143646182138242043noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-75058942813816524752014-07-05T12:50:51.958-06:002014-07-05T12:50:51.958-06:00Stricter enforcement is indeed one solution--but t...Stricter enforcement is indeed one solution--but that's tough to do with grassroots racing. And I'm not sure that it's really necessary. When communities establish norms, most people tend to follow them. This can cut both ways though, as the TDF showed--if drugs become the norm, then everyone will use them.<br /><br />Whatever transpires, I've enjoyed the exchange James. Thanks for jumping in!Toby Gaddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12143646182138242043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-85739901521069670042014-07-05T03:40:33.812-06:002014-07-05T03:40:33.812-06:00That TDF example doesn't fit so well with self...That TDF example doesn't fit so well with self-supported racing, you're right that there's far more to it, as far as interactions with others go though it's become a guideline that fits my attitudes. No reason to do so, also imo no real reason why not so long as it's minor. Grey area though and that's the risk in general, the shades. So we may not quite agree with where the line is but I do respect your views on this. If I wouldn't begrudge something minor done by another rider then it's ok to me and works in reverse for my personal ethics, but the bigger issue is a wider acceptance of what is OK and what is not for the sake of future races and racers. Credit to you for fighting for that cause. And I see an issue if what I do isn't ok with you, then it becomes an issue. Maybe the only answer is stricter regulations but that's a debate in itself.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08456068315124911739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-37117441242782963162014-07-05T03:15:48.096-06:002014-07-05T03:15:48.096-06:00Good distinction on ethics vs adventure. For me th...Good distinction on ethics vs adventure. For me the adventure aspect trumps the racing but we all need to pull in the right direction re. what rules there are, for the sake of what makes this type of racing appeal to so many. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08456068315124911739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-68760642258792077692014-06-17T15:48:35.416-06:002014-06-17T15:48:35.416-06:00Yeah, onsighting a race is awesome. I pretty much ...Yeah, onsighting a race is awesome. I pretty much did that on my first CTR. I did have a GPS track, and bought the guidebook. But I found the book very abstract and overwhelming, so I didn't take notes or bring it with me. I had only ridden one short section (in reverse) before the race, so I really had no idea where I was most of the time. That said, there are some races where that's really not possible or reasonable. Take the KTR for example--water is life in the desert, and heading out without knowing where to get a drink would be foolish.<br /><br />Ethically, I don't think that rookies have any high ground--but they will have a deeper adventure!Toby Gaddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12143646182138242043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-83207235765728453232014-06-17T15:43:49.493-06:002014-06-17T15:43:49.493-06:00Some thoughts about your statement that, "we ...Some thoughts about your statement that, "we want to win by the strength in our legs, not because another rider's stomach is empty." Not really. If someone (including me!) doesn't plan well and ends up hungry, then that's a great reason to lose! Ultra-racing is more than about legs for me--it's about everything, including the gear that I choose, the planning that I undertake, how much water and food I carry, etc. That's what makes it different from a road race time trial!<br /><br />As far as taking food from other riders, friends, and strangers, I just don't see any reason to do so. It's very easy to say, "thanks, but I'm on a self-supported race, and I can't accept any outside food. But thanks so much--that was a really kind gesture!" I've said exactly that, and the person didn't take offense in the slightest.<br /><br />In short, if you're taking stuff from other people, you're not doing it yourself. And if you're not doing it yourself, you're missing out on what it feels like to be fully self-sufficient and accountable for your decisions and independence.<br /><br />Other racers are already taking great liberties to gain an advantage. Drafting on the TD. Having pizzas delivered to the trailhead on the AZT. Begging for food and water on the CTR. To me, those things are unfair, and destroy the ethos of ultra-racing.Toby Gaddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12143646182138242043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-11965113592716800502014-06-17T03:09:31.172-06:002014-06-17T03:09:31.172-06:00..and your 'pulling on gear' point is a go.....and your 'pulling on gear' point is a good one. Climbing ethics set good examples. I think the perfect race run is done as close to 'on sight' as possible as a rookie but our trail research diminishes that and long routes with no route notes relating to distances between re-supply etc may be impractical. How much research do we do before the start line? Do rookies have a better ethical run than the same racer as a vet? Is truly on-sighting the big routes possible?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08456068315124911739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-34462487688909091432014-06-17T02:50:52.197-06:002014-06-17T02:50:52.197-06:00Good post and an interesting read.
One commonly ...Good post and an interesting read. <br /><br />One commonly flexed rule is food and trail magic. 'You can accept a sandwich but not a meal' <br />is one interpretation I've understood from the TDR and I agree with that definition. 'Accept' being a key word. Interested in your take on that?<br />I've accepted a snack on the TDR. 150 calories maybe. We're not meant to be automotons who can't interact with locals along a route and accepting a small token of goodwill from riders or people you meet along the way is within the ethics of self-supported riding to me. It also offers a chance to explain the ethics if that offer extends to a cooked full meal or a bed in a private house. Proactively asking for food is slightly different, that's where the fine line is for me. I'd not begrudge another racer that if they were in dire need though - the classic image and story of Coppi and Bartali on the Izoard in the TdF for example - we want to win by the strength in our legs, not because another rider's stomach is empty. <br />I've not raced much but when I do I have my own aims that aren't part of the regular rules that may not make me faster, the opposite perhaps, and I think there should be room for racers to develop their own style so long as there is no feeling among their peers that unfair gain is had.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08456068315124911739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-39686240564790530742012-07-25T08:52:12.321-06:002012-07-25T08:52:12.321-06:00Hi Dennis,
First of all, the current TD rules all...Hi Dennis,<br /><br />First of all, the current TD rules allow for this sort of trail magic. So, in my opinion, Tracy will finish fairly.<br /><br />Further, she didn't do anything wrong by my rules either--although there is very slight tint of gray. Since she was in town (at a commercial establishment anyway), and she had already ordered and eaten the food while fully expecting to pay for it, she didn't really receive any support that gave her any sort of an advantage. To me, her situation is very different from accepting a sandwich in the middle of nowhere.<br /><br />I do like your idea of making a donation of some sort, just to eliminate the slightest tinge of gray. Maybe buying lunch for a worthy stranger down the road would be cool. Spreads the joy too, in a "pay it forward" sort of way--which is always a good thing. I'm not sure I would have thought of it, but I'm glad that you did. The next time someone anonymously buys me lunch, I know what I'll do!Toby Gaddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12143646182138242043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-25294136209859627552012-07-25T04:44:11.939-06:002012-07-25T04:44:11.939-06:00Here is a real life scenario: Tracy, currently rac...Here is a real life scenario: Tracy, currently racing the TD, albeit at a slower pace than most, left an MTBCast message yesterday, recounting an instance in a Cuba restaurant where her and fellow racer Jim discovered that after looking at their bikes and apparently being mightily impressed by them, strangers had actually paid for their meal, and left. Talk about trail magic! <br /><br />http://mtbcast.com/site2/category/td12/<br /><br />They of course accepted it, and seemed very happy about it. Would that violate any of your rules? should they have handled it some other way? (making a donation to the restaurant, trying to catch the strangers, etc...) <br /><br />Note that I think they really shouldn't have done anything at all, except thanking them on the mtbcast phone call, which they did. But you are much stricter than I would be about trail magic, so I'm wondering how you think it should be handled?DenisVTTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-88892546737556690582012-07-19T10:41:14.425-06:002012-07-19T10:41:14.425-06:00For me, "real life" has many, many shade...For me, "real life" has many, many shades of grey. But sports are simpler and clearer. I grew up climbing, and I learned that demanding the highest standards of myself resulted in the best experience. Resisting the temptation to pull on a piece of gear was necessary if I truly hoped to advance my skills and complete the climb honestly. Calculating the risks of crossing an avalanche chute forced me to accept the ultimate responsibility for my actions--and all those that lead up to that point. Making sure that my belayer didn't give me a little extra tension on the rope during a difficult move forced me to control my own fears and gave me focus.<br /><br />For me, ultra-endurance racing is another mountain sport, where I find great satisfaction in performing to the highest standards. In that, there are very few grey areas. And when I come across them, I attempt to understand and overcome the ambiguity. I don't always get it right, but that's part of the learning process.<br /><br />If you don't feel that you can stay on the "good side of [my] legalism," then maybe you shouldn't worry about it. Just as there are lots of climbers who don't care whether they pull on gear to complete a climb, there are ultra-racers who feel that it's OK to beg water from hikers. Yes, I'm going to critically judge such behavior as inferior to the highest standards--but I'm not going to slash your tires or eat your children. Rather, I'll seek inspiration from those who are advancing the sport.<br /><br />Thanks for adding your viewpoint. I'm looking forward to crossing your tracks in 2013 (if I ride the CTR). I'll turn down your Snickers, but I'll buy you a couple of beers in Durango!Toby Gaddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12143646182138242043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-2816729340032748872012-07-19T09:53:28.164-06:002012-07-19T09:53:28.164-06:00Doubtless riding through that closure was against ...Doubtless riding through that closure was against the letter of the law. No argument there. You completely missed my point - which is, simply, that every single situation will be seen in differing shades of grey by any new person to come across that situation.<br /><br />I simply think that given all the shades of grey, if we're to keep what most of us enjoy about ultra-racing alive, we can't worry about all the details. Cheaters will cheat. And the rest of us will try and stick to the very basic tenants that have been traditionally followed (which as Scott points out are somewhat all over the map). I'm not religious, but it appears to me that the religions that try and define the undefinable most are also the least "spiritual", for lack of a better word. Let's not get too legalistic. Nothing you write about is difficult. It's just that it's not always clear, at the deciding moment, which path is the one that will stay on the good side of your legalism.<br /><br />In any case, I'm sure I'm not changing your mind and not even really trying to... just trying to add a different view to the discussion. Good luck in the CTR this year. Perhaps I'll see you out there in 2013, and offer you a Snickers! ;)JoeyDurangohttp://www.velorutioncycles.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-62251081650617767992012-07-18T21:36:18.893-06:002012-07-18T21:36:18.893-06:00Joey,
As far as the Forest Service is concerned, r...Joey,<br />As far as the Forest Service is concerned, riding on a closed trail is against the law. It doesn't matter whether you or I like it or not--if ultra-racers break the law, we will be banned from holding events on public lands. When I came across the closure, I thought about the possible consequences of riding though it, and I decided that I didn't want to risk messing up the CTR for future riders. You obviously had different priorities that day.<br /><br />A big part of your argument in general seems to be that the rules I race by are too complicated. Truly, the don't seem that way for me. They add to the challenge, the commitment, and the sportsmanship. Nope, they aren't life and death--but, then again neither is stealing, and I don't do that either. Which ones do you find too difficult or obscure to follow (other than the one about not pissing off land-use agencies)?<br /><br />As far as why I race, it's because I love facing difficult challenges that force me to prepare better, dig deeper, and explore new physical and mental frontiers. Like a mountaineer who chooses to advance higher standards by not using supplemental oxygen or an army of Sherpas, I believe in pushing the concept of self-support by not allowing myself the luxury of depending on other riders for support, etc.<br /><br />You are more than welcome to ride however you want. As am I. But I thrive when someone raises the standards, because I welcome greater challenges and more demanding expectations. Greater ideals drive greater achievements!Toby Gaddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12143646182138242043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-27724732104297146952012-07-18T19:40:12.072-06:002012-07-18T19:40:12.072-06:00Sheesh, I thought we were all just out there to en...Sheesh, I thought we were all just out there to enjoy the experience and have fun. Less is more - the more specifically prohibitive you get, the more specific you'll have to get, as everyone begins double-guessing everything. Cheaters will cheat anyway, no matter the rules (see the currently-occurring race in France). Most of us understand the spirit of ultra racing. For yet another real-world example, I was one of the "25%" who "ignored" an official National Forest closure in the 2011 CTR. I took the long way around to stay on the trail - and yes, yes, I understand you've specifically addressed "longcuts". As we've gone over before, Toby, things aren't always so black and white. The CT rules say "stay on the CT", as well as "don't break the law". Personally, when I come to a forestry-related trail closure at 7pm, I don't think of going around a sign as breaking the law. I do that sort of thing all the time. Ain't no one gonna be out in the woods with a chainsaw at 7pm, not government workers, anyway. Given that I had no chance of getting hurt due to the kinds of things the FS was worried about - trees being felled - I personally made the on-the-spot call to follow the CT. That, to me, was the more "pure" interpretation of the situation at hand. This was PRE Stefan's CTR-specific signage to follow the detour.<br /><br />We can argue the specifics of that incident all day, but the reality on the ground is that everyone sees every situation just a little differently than the next guy. What makes perfect sense to me makes no sense to you and vice versa - and while we can all agree that cutting portions of the course, accepting blatant outside support (pre-arranged drops, etc), and such aren't really in the spirit of the whole idea, the small situations are impossible to regulate. If you try you end up like the UCI, and hell, isn't that the reason we're all doing this stuff instead anyway?<br /><br />I guess if you're worried about the "soul" of ultra-endurance racing, a great way to kill it is to come up with ever-longer lists of rules and regulations. Maybe I'll stick to touring or ITT's after all to be sure to not run afoul of someone's personal list of ideals. Sure, I have ideals - but part of life is realizing that they generally don't get followed. Just look at Congress. Can't we just say Start Here, Finish There, This Route, Support Thyself, Who's Fastest, GO!? It ain't life or death.JoeyDurangohttp://www.velorutioncycles.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-77852259045709538102012-06-28T10:28:13.363-06:002012-06-28T10:28:13.363-06:00Hi Chris,
I fully agree that Elena did not break ...Hi Chris,<br /><br />I fully agree that Elena did not break a TD rule. Not only is Matt the uncontested arbiter of all things Tour Divider, his rules clearly allow for such things. As such, Elena is clearly entitled to an uncontested finish! I'm not about to pick apart Elena's decision without engaging her directly.<br /><br /><br />Dennis,<br /><br />There are many, many, many ways to show kindness, camaraderie, friendship, etc. without swapping gear, food, or bodily fluids. While I agree that refusing assistance might be awkward at times, there are ways of dealing with it that preserve the good vibes. 99% of the time, there's never even a conflict anyway--there are more then enough great moments to remember for a lifetime.Toby Gaddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12143646182138242043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-83909777427878713472012-06-27T18:25:34.914-06:002012-06-27T18:25:34.914-06:00Great and very thought provoking post. Let me give...Great and very thought provoking post. Let me give you another real world scenario to mull over.<br /><br />Last week, in this year's Tour Divide race, Elena Massarenti broke her seat rail in the Basin before Rawlins. She taped it up and was riding south from Rawlins when she came upon a construction zone with a bunch of guys welding. She asked if they could do a fix on her seat rail and they managed to do it (she has some great photos). When we got to Bush Mountain Lodge that night, Matt and Scott were there and she recounted the story. Matt agreed that this was well within the rules of the TD.<br /><br />I think that with all rules the key is to keep them to the minimum and to make them practical. We are engaged in an honour sport and we need to be true to those principles.<br /><br />In this instance, I don't see anything wrong with the surendipitous use of roadside welders. Similarly, if someone is riding and due to conditions is in serious trouble due to a lack of water, then they should take it from either another rider or a passer by. Failure to do so could result in serious injury.<br /><br />At the same time, we should never draft, rely on others except in extreme circumstances, never accept lifts etc. Those are total no go areas.<br /><br />Chris BennettChrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12925954133467296457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-33736016333342336522012-06-22T12:00:59.463-06:002012-06-22T12:00:59.463-06:00I agree Denis. Your second point is where I was t...I agree Denis. Your second point is where I was trying to go with the shelter example I had. Perhaps you're onto something with distilling this all down to a "don't do anything that would jeopardize someone else's race or give you an UNFAIR advantage" principle. Proving "unfairness" is where it gets cloudy so there's probably a better way to verbalize that.<br /><br />Ultimately I see this all as an honor system. Like I said before, the leaders didn't get there by being sketchy and for the rest of the mid-pack what you get out of it is likely to be much more important than placing 12th vs 13th.<br /><br />And no, I live near Matt Lee, but am not him (and actually have not met him yet).Mattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-64279437151802113142012-06-15T21:55:47.940-06:002012-06-15T21:55:47.940-06:00Matt: // Let's say instead of bringing you bre...Matt: // Let's say instead of bringing you breakfast, he instead saw you left your sleeping bag sitting by the door and he comes out to hand it to you. Bad or good? My gut says Bad - your mistake//<br /><br />Yes, my mistake, but how do you turn down the guy that just drove 45 minutes one way on muddy dirt roads to bring it to you? "No, thank you, can you just take it back to the B&B, and I'll go get it myself"??? Or do you take it and then DQ yourself for having taken it? <br /><br />I can see turning down an offer of help from a bystander, but I don't see myself sending the poor guy back with my sleeping bag. It just sounds rude!<br /><br />I think at some point you have to take into account that human kindness and one's encounters with it are also a big part of why we do those adventures, and just let those things happen when they happen. This particular example with the sleeping bag might have been an advantage, but I'm pretty sure most other racers in the course of 3 weeks will have their turn at human kindness. In other words, human kindness is plentiful enough along such long routes for everybody to benefit in about the same way at some point. <br /><br />Besides, me taping the supply of human kindness in this instance doesn't diminish how much of it there is. It's not like you take a candy bar from a store and there is one less candy bar there for when others will come by. However, turning it down might mean there will be less of it, at least from this B&B owner. And that would be a shame, no?<br /><br />PS: Are you Matt Lee?DenisVTTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-89021174120060335592012-06-15T19:23:14.706-06:002012-06-15T19:23:14.706-06:00Toby - Good stuff here and I'm glad someone is...Toby - Good stuff here and I'm glad someone is talking about it and asking some good quesitons, for both sides' sake.<br /><br />Dennis - That is a tough cookie. I don't see anything wrong with it as a) you didn't ask for it b) it wasn't a handout c) it didn't take away from anyone else's race. BUT I can see how you have to have a hard rule or everything is an exception and therefore no rule. (Part of my job is writing and implementing rules so I think about this stuff A LOT).<br /><br />Let's put a twist on that scenario though. Let's say instead of bringing you breakfast, he instead saw you left your sleeping bag sitting by the door and he comes out to hand it to you. Bad or good? My gut says Bad - your mistake. But what is another racer grabs it and hands it to you at the next stop? Hard to say but shouldn't really be any different. You didn't ask for either but th eburden is on you to make the right decision. Even then, where do you draw the line? If he notices as you walk out the door it's ok. If he cathces you within earshot? A mile down the road?<br /><br />I think this is a great thought from Dennis and something that is important to consider. "At the same time, maybe being too strict will result on missing out on wonderful stories like this. Like, if the B&B owner is reading this, will he do it again, or will he fear that his goodwill gesture might DQ a racer? And if he no longer does things like that, is that a good outcome?"<br /><br />Perhaps fewer/simpler rules IS the right way to go and especially in these longer races where the outcomes rely so little on the minutia the honor system is best?Mattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-7277247075548831072012-06-15T09:11:59.690-06:002012-06-15T09:11:59.690-06:00Hi Matt,
I nuked the old #4 point. As I tried to ...Hi Matt,<br /><br />I nuked the old #4 point. As I tried to re-word it, I realized that it was actually redundant. By not accepting ANY support, the issue should never arise to begin with!Toby Gaddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12143646182138242043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-83358709825452691012012-06-15T08:59:16.392-06:002012-06-15T08:59:16.392-06:00Dennis,
Your example really illustrates the diffi...Dennis,<br /><br />Your example really illustrates the difficulty of interpreting the existing rule-sets for many of these races. What looks like trail magic to one person, instead looks like paid assistance to someone else. While it's obvious that you weren't dabbling in gray areas to gain any sort of advantage, others certainly have. That's one reason why I think it's simpler to just reject any sort of assistance whatsoever. If riders don't take anything, then there's no question of whether it was trail magic, unfair assistance, whatever. Further, it actually requires less thought. Instead of trying to think through whether it's OK in a specific circumstance to accept something, the answer is an automatic no.<br /><br />Being "too strict" will certainly change the nature of the stories. But I don't think that it'll be a net loss of stories; rather, different ones will emerge. While innkeepers might not chase down cyclists (which is incredibly generous and thoughtful!), they will probably find other ways to express their admiration and enthusiasm for racers. Maybe a cooler of beer set on the steps for late-night arrivals? Maybe an extra "to go" sandwich for a beat-down rider heading out the door? There are zillions of ways to share kindness and friendship, and 99% of them won't be touched by more stringent rules.Toby Gaddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12143646182138242043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-37026540168495612852012-06-14T20:12:50.633-06:002012-06-14T20:12:50.633-06:00Like I said, I don't think it was trail magic ...Like I said, I don't think it was trail magic in the first place. From the rules: “TD defines trail magic as an inconsequential amount of serendipitous support from a bystander as the Divide racer carries on the normal business of pedaling to Mexico.” Wiki defines serendipity as a "happy accident" or "pleasant surprise". I will accept that it was a pleasant surprise. I don’t think however that it was a “happy accident”. It didn’t happen by chance or accident, it happened because I had spent and paid for a night in a commercial establishment that purports to sell lodging AND breakfast. Finally, the person who brought it to me wasn’t a bystander. He was the B&B owner who brought me breakfast because I had paid for it and he thought it was the right thing to do to give a customer what he paid for. <br /><br />Would have I accepted it after it was brought up to me by Paul and Eric? Yes. That's because when I thought about it then, I came to the conclusion, as outlined above, that it wasn't trail magic. <br /><br />Would I accept it now, after reading your rules and principles? I must admit, you made me think further about it than I ever had. I still don't think it's trail magic, but your rules go further than that (Nobody can bring you anything, anywhere, any time.) At the very least, I would think twice, and maybe turn it down in an excess of caution. <br /><br />At the same time, maybe being too strict will result on missing out on wonderful stories like this. Like, if the B&B owner is reading this, will he do it again, or will he fear that his goodwill gesture might DQ a racer? And if he no longer does things like that, is that a good outcome?DenisVTTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-19420335515675174902012-06-14T19:49:04.433-06:002012-06-14T19:49:04.433-06:00Hi Dennis,
That's a great story, thanks for s...Hi Dennis,<br /><br />That's a great story, thanks for sharing it. Real-world situations are the ultimate test of rules and ideas. Personally, I don't think that you broke an existing TD rule, since trail magic was acceptable at that time. But it sounds like you wouldn't take it now?<br /><br />I have not broken any of my rules--but I've come really close. On the CTR in 2010, I was trying to unclog one of my water-treatment bottles, when a truck pulled up. While we were chatting, they offered me a needle, and I instinctively reached out to take it. But then I remembered that I wasn't going to accept "trail magic," so I politely handed it back and explained why (they understood, and were amused). I spent the next twenty minutes looking for something to use, trying pine needles, rose thorns, etc.--before remembering that I had a needle in my first aid kit (doh!).<br /><br />On another occasion, I was standing in a lobby of a hotel, and a guy offered me a ride to a restaurant. I almost said yes, before realizing that riding in cars wasn't really in the spirit of the race. So I ate dinner from the vending machine instead!<br /><br />As the sport evolves, I expect that more people will think about this sort of thing. What they do with those thoughts will determine what these races look like!Toby Gaddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12143646182138242043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-18007768413899007612012-06-14T19:30:01.844-06:002012-06-14T19:30:01.844-06:00Very interesting topic, Toby. I admire your set of...Very interesting topic, Toby. I admire your set of rules but would argue that unless you've truly spent some time thinking about them as you did, most racers have not and would probably violate some of them without even thinking that what they are doing might not be totally in the spirit of self-supported racing as you describe it. <br /><br />Here is a case in point for you:<br /><br />In 2011, I arrived at the Laughing Horse B&B in Swan Lake around midnight. It was closed, but there was a sign on the porch that said “if you arrive after hours, just help yourself to a room and we’ll settle everything tomorrow.” So I took a room. <br /><br />Next morning, I get up around 5:30am, get ready and go to check if anything is open. Of course, it’s not. The sign by the kitchen says that breakfast is at 8:30 or something like that. Yet I'm trying to catch this guy in front of me and I can’t really wait for 3 hours. So I leave a note on the door that says “I’m truly sorry about that but I arrived late and must leave early. Here is my credit card number and my phone number. Please charge me and call me if you have any questions. Again, very, very sorry!”<br /><br />And I start riding. Couple hours later, I hear a car coming up to me. It slows down to my level and the following dialogue ensues:<br /><br />- Are you Denis?<br />- Yes<br />- I’m the guy from the B&B<br />- [oh, oh – did my credit card not go through? ]<br />- I brought you breakfast!<br /><br />I ate the breakfast right there on the side of the trail. Never thought of it as trail magic or anything even remotely illegal. Didn’t even cross my mind until Paul Howard and Eric Bruntjen brought it up to me last month when I submitted the story for the Cordillera. I was stunned. <br /><br />Let me be clear, I am very confident that I didn't break any existing TD rule. I paid for the breakfast that was implied in the name Bed and Breakfast, and I didn't request any special treatment. It didn’t happen by chance or accident (serendipity rule), it happened because I had spent and paid for a night in a commercial establishment that purports to sell lodging and breakfast. Finally, the person who brought it to me wasn’t a bystander. He was the B&B owner who brought me breakfast because I had paid for it and he thought it was the right thing to do to give a customer what he paid for.<br /><br />It does however appear to violate at least 4 of your rules, maybe more:<br /><br />- Nobody can bring you anything, anywhere, any time.<br />-There’s no difference between “unplanned” and “planned” support. All support is support.<br />- Trail magic is unnecessary, and there are too many gray areas. Just keep it clean and decline. Trade words and memories, not Kit Kats.<br />- Eating in restaurants is fine. No trailside deliveries though.<br /><br />The other interesting consideration, at least to me, was how utterly unaware I was at the time that there even was something to worry about. And in fact, I'm pretty confident that if any thought of me accepting the breakfast might have been a rule violation or even a gray area, I'm pretty confident I would have turned it down. But I didn't. <br /><br />What do you think? Did I break your rules?DenisVTTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-46267232672059007232012-06-14T19:28:36.610-06:002012-06-14T19:28:36.610-06:00Matt, some good ideas there. Thank you!
#4 could ...Matt, some good ideas there. Thank you!<br /><br />#4 could be more specific for sure. I'll try to clarify it.<br /><br />Yeah, there's really no need to swap gear in towns. I'll change it.<br /><br />As far as phones go, I think that asking riders to police themselves is OK. After all, there's really no enforcement on any other point either, right?Toby Gaddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12143646182138242043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4415523084225762369.post-68839555078511900502012-06-14T19:11:29.850-06:002012-06-14T19:11:29.850-06:00BTW - the anti-robot code on that post was serious...BTW - the anti-robot code on that post was seriously "URRONG 1" - even your blog says I'm wrong ;)Mattnoreply@blogger.com